Wednesday, April 14, 2010

Something I'll never understand...

On religion. And prayer.

I'm just gonna go ahead and go here, because I kind of need to vent, a little.

I'll apologize in advance, to whomever I may offend, and to my mother, for publicly professing my disbelief in her deity, of choice. I know she is ridiculously ashamed that she has raised a heathen child, bound for hell.

I was talking to a mom of one of Lily's friends yesterday, at school. She said that she'd heard I was going to nursing school, and we were chit chatting about it. We got on the subject of blood and guts, and mortality, and the reason I wanted to become a nurse, and I mentioned my first born. I did it as casually, and as briefly as I could, in order to lessen the impact of the unavoidable awkwardness.

My efforts, per usual, were futile.

I could see the shock and awe on her face, and she followed suit with the, "I'm so sorry's," "I can't imagine's," and the, "It must've been so hard's," that are the centerpiece of almost all of the conversations that I have about my son.

The talk of hospitals reminded her of the time when her daughter almost got the tip of her finger cut off in a freak accident. Miraculously, and leaving the doctors dumbfounded, her finger was sewn back together, and was 100% fine. No damage, whatsoever. I marveled at the "miracle," that she described, and just as she started to say, "Yes, it was amazing, we were so lucky," she stopped herself, and said...

"No...I'll tell you what saved her finger. We started praying. It was those prayers we said, and that alone, that saved her finger."

There was a moment of awkwardness, where a good, fellow Christian, would've said, "Oh, YES! Amen! AmenAmenAmen, Sister. Praise be to God and Hallelujah!" I'm not. So...I didn't.

Instead, I wondered if she could see the shock and awe on my face.

I wondered if she realized the low blow, she'd just delivered.

I had just told this woman, that my boy had a double organ transplant, and died. She proceeded to tell me, that her daughter almost lost the tip of her finger (I know, I know, the tip is the best part!), but, because of all that praying she did...the tip was fine!

If I were a Christian, what does that say about my boy? Actually, I did consider myself one at the time of his death.

That we didn't pray hard enough? That not enough people had prayed? That SHE hadn't prayed? What exactly...does that mean? What does that insinuate?

I do not understand Christians armed with good intentions, saying things like, "It was God's will." It was God's will that my baby died? He willed an innocent child to death? For what? So that someone else could learn something? That's pretty shitty!!

Or, "We are so blessed. God chose to heal our child." Really? Well, he's an ass, then, because that means he chose NOT to heal mine. If we're all God's children, then, in regard to the healing of my boy, I must be the red-headed step child!!

I don't understand that, about Christianity, and don't know if I ever will.

How does one reconcile that in their heads? How does this Christian woman, tell the mother of a dead baby, that because she and her friends prayed...her daughter's FINGER-FUCKING-TIP, is fine?!?

I imagine it's something, like this..."Oh...I'm sure picking out that tiny little casket for your kid sucked, but, look here at the tip of my daughter's finger! Look how Jesus, and Jesus alone, has given her 10 fingernails to paint, instead of an unsightly nine!! I shudder at the thought of only nine painted nails."

*Seriously, no offense to any nine-fingered people out there. I'm sure it's rough losing one of your digits, and I don't mean to discount that! For your sake, I hope you still have "tall man!" He's my favorite!*

I'm totally being a smartass...

Having said all this...I'm not bitter, or angry, or jealous that "God" didn't save my boy. I'm really not. I've said before that I'm thankful to whomever, for that experience, and the perspective that I have.

However, it is this perspective that causes the ruffling of my feathers, over instances like this one. With all the suffering in the world (again, I'm not talking about me, here...my suffering is minuscule/non-existent compared to that, of others.), why would God answer prayers over tips of fingers? Even the prayers lifted up over my son? How does our "heavenly father" decide, which of his children to heal, and which one to allow to suffer?

If God is capable of answering all the prayers...but, doesn't. Then, why does he answer any of the prayers?

In my opinion, he doesn't. Simple as that.

36 comments:

Lolidots said...

I just love you.

I have nothing as marvelously and eloquently profound as your words but, you know I agree with you and you absolutely rock my socks.

And, I'll give you an "Amen Sista" for that one.

Shannon said...

Yup. What Robin said.

One of my daughter's PICU nurses said that he believed that our children suffer because of the sins of their fathers (and mothers presumably). So yeah, God was pissed at me for...something, so he made my child suffer. AWESOME.

S.I.F. said...

If God is capable of answering all the prayers...but, doesn't. Then, why does he answer any of the prayers?

I know you know that even as a Christian I feel the same way. I have a hard time praying for specific things because I just don't think it really works that way. I am dumbfounded by the losses some endure while others seem to be surviving just fine. I believe there is a reason, I just have no clue what that reason is. I do think that if God is going to heal, he is going to do so with or without prayer though. I don't think having a big prayer army is going to change the situation if it's not his will.

I'm not sure any of what I just said helped at all. In fact, it probably just made what that lady said even worse and now I'm just as bad as she is.

I just think you're great. I think your strength is great. I think your grace is great. I think you are great.

And that's really all I've got!

Kameron said...

That whole thought train is why I had to stop reading a certain someon'e blog. I got tired of her inferring that she was so special because God chose to heal her son. I can't beleive she said that to you AFTER you told her you had lost your son. What the f is wrong with people. It must suck to have that conversation, especially with people you don't know. To play the devil's advocate a bit though, it is hard toknow what to say to someone if you have never experienced a loss like that. You don't want to discount it by saying nothing, but at the same time, don't have the faintest idea of what to say. I have been in that awkward position before and it sucks....probably not as much as you having to hear it a million times, but it sucks just the same!

Wendy said...

People are just stupid and ignorant, plain and simple. Some just always need to bring the conversation back to themselves, no matter what. A simple "I'm so sorry about your son and how awesome that you want to be a nurse now" would have been sufficient. The sad truth is there are times when the medical world can perform "miracles" and save the tip of a finger and there are other times when they can not. Personally, I would have told that woman exactly how shallow and callous she was about comparing your son to a fingertip.

Tessa said...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and sound like the crazy "out there" lady.
I love Jesus...good guy. I am not a Christian though and I believe the Christians are doing Jesus an injustice with all the fire and brimstone. The bible is largely metaphors, and in the translating of those metaphors, things have been mixed up...a lot.
I will say that our belief in something has a lot of power, whether it be our belief in ourselves, that we will accomplish our dreams, or our belief that we will be healed, or even our belief that whatever happens is the way it is supposed to happen.
I read these books called "Conversations with God" a bunch of years back and as silly as it seems that the author had actual conversations with God, what the books said really resonated with my heart, it felt true.
One of the things he (He) said in the book is that we make contracts in the spirit world with the people who will come and go in our next lifetimes, for the sake of the evolution of our soul. Now...I hope this doesn't sound crazy...and it will to some, but it resonated with me. There is even a children's book about this subject by that same author called "The Little Soul and the Sun".

Stacey said...

I really don't think she actually meant for it to hurt you that way.

I agree a lot with S.I.F. I don't understand a lot of it either. I definitely think God has some explaining to do!

heidi said...

I don't have an answer for you. Hell, I don't have an answer for ME. In my case I think it comes down to the fact that people have choices to make, and someone made a choice that hurt us. In your case, though, there was no CHOICE that was made. I'm baffled, too. I don't understand it, I don't pretend to. I'm supposed to just trust that it will all come out in the wash. I'm supposed to tell you that Joey had a purpose during his brief stint here on Earth. I'm supposed to believe that if someone is helped by the plight of Joey and you all, then it was all "worth it". Sadly, I can't walk that line because I don't think it's ever "worth it".

I am with Kam, though, that I imagine the lady had no idea WHAT to say and when we're faced with situations like that our moths start running and our brains are like "hit the brakes hit the brakes! stop talking MORON!" Ok, maybe that's just me but you know what I'm saying?

I don't think it's fair when people say "I prayed and MY baby was healed. That's why." Well you know what? I prayed, too. I prayed a lot.

Oh forget it. I'm just rewriting your blog post. I'll just end like I began.

I don't have any answers for you and I don't have any answers for me.

Brooke said...

If I didn't tell you before, I like you.

This Daddy said...

Nikki, you handled it better than I would have. Shows that you are a good person.

Anonymous said...

First of all I would like to say that I am sorry for your loss. I cannot begin to understand your loss because I have never been through anything even close to that painful. I also find it very inconsiderate how the lady unconsciously moved from your tragedy to her miracle. But please understand that just as non-Christians make mistakes, Christians do as well.

God’s will is hard for all to understand. In fact the Bible says that Gods ways are not our ways so how can we understand. ISAIAH 55:8-9 “FOR MY THOUGHTS ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS, NOR ARE YOUR WAYS MY WAYS,” SAYS THE LORD. 9 “FOR AS THE HEAVENS ARE HIGHER THAN THE EARTH, SO ARE MY WAYS HIGHER THAN YOUR WAYS, AND MY THOUGHTS THAN YOUR THOUGHTS.

God’s wisdom is so much greater than ours. His perception is perfect. He knows exactly what will take place tomorrow, ten years from now, and even ten thousand years from now.
I FIRMLY believe that your son is in a far better place now. In fact Jesus said IN MATTHEW 19:14“LET THE LITTLE CHILDREN COME TO ME, FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS MADE UP OF LITTLE ONES LIKE THESE.” I believe God did save your son. He saved him from a world of pain, hate, anger, sickness, and greed. In second Samuel chapter 12 you can read where King David was hurting because his baby son died. In verse 23 he said “I SHALL GO TO HIM, BUT HE SHALL NOT RETURN TO ME.” HE UNDERSTOOD THERE WAS NOTHING HE COULD DO TO BRING HIS SON BACK, BUT ONE DAY HE COULD SEE HIM AGAIN.

One of the greatest misused phases that people and Christians use is “We are all God’s children”. That is not true. We are not all God’s Children. In fact the bible says there is only one way to become a child of God.
JOHN 1:10-13 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 BUT AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, TO THEM HE GAVE THE RIGHT TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD, TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN HIS NAME: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

You state that you used to be a Christian. I am sorry that Satan has deceived you and stolen your joy. But I pray that God will open your eyes and you will realize that HE loves you and always will. He is waiting for you to come back to Him. JOEL 2:12-13 12 "EVEN NOW," DECLARES THE LORD’ "RETURN TO ME WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH FASTING AND WEEPING AND MOURNING." 13 REND YOUR HEART AND NOT YOUR GARMENTS. RETURN TO THE LORD YOUR GOD, FOR HE IS GRACIOUS AND COMPASSIONATE, SLOW TO ANGER AND ABOUNDING IN LOVE…

This world will always be full of heart ache and tribulation. Jesus said JOHN 6:33 THESE THINGS I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU, THAT IN ME YOU MAY HAVE PEACE. IN THE WORLD YOU WILL HAVE TRIBULATION; BUT BE OF GOOD CHEER, I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD.”

My Prayer is for everyone who reads this, please understand God’s loves you but it is your choice to accept His Love. There is only one true way to peace and happiness. JOHN 14:6 JESUS ANSWERED, "I AM THE WAY AND THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME.

Sincerely,
An Ambassador for Christ
2 Corinthians 5:20

Nikki B. said...

thanks, robin!!

shannon - just warms your heart right up to the big guy in the sky, doesn't it?? or...ya know...NOT!!

SIF - i think it was you who asked it that way, wasn't it?? i know you and i were on the same page with that one...i should've given you credit for that!! and nothing you said made it any worse...as much as i hate this next phrase, it's appropriate here: i know where your heart is...no worries!! which makes me think, that i should assume the same of that woman i was talking to...that her heart was in a good place. but, at the time, i was bothered...hindsight! thanks, SIF!!!

kam - i hear ya,kam!! same here. it's such a huge slap in the face, and if she doesn't see it, she's blind, and if she does...then, she keeps on preaching it, so she must feel she deserves it!! wow! enough about that!

you're right....it is an awkward situation for people. i know that...and i hate it. and thanks for playing devil's advocate, and showing me another perspective. that's what i needed out of this, so i can see that she didn't mean it how it came across!!

wendy - when i got home, i told my husband that i needed a scripted comeback for that kind of situation, should it arise again. something really, really smartass-ish, to slap her in the face with! something like: "wow...you are so blessed. god answered your prayers. mine? notsomuch. maybe next time i'll call you and have you pray for my kid. what'd'ya say?"

tessa - that doesn't seem out there at all, to me! i kinda believe in that stuff. have you read, "only love is real" by brian weiss? great book about the subject of past life regression!

stacey - i'm sure she didn't mean to hurt me...thanks for reminding me! seriously!!

heidi - i think the people who say those things, haven't seen things that you have, or things that i have. in fairness to them, they just don't know. when you do see these kinds of things...it just changes things like that. you have to question it. it's why i just have to believe that shitty things happen, for no reason, other than, just that shitty things happen. and sometimes, they happen to really good people, like us! ;)

thanks, brooke!! ditto!!

scott - i bit my tongue, and i fled the scene. does that make me a good person? my gut was twisted, and my tongue is sharp...i chose to sheath it, before it got me into any trouble. which, is very good advice for a man's penis, too!

anon - thanks for weighing in here. you had me, right up until "satan has deceived you and stolen your joy." he didn't steal my joy. i'm a ridiculously happer person. i just have this huge wound on my soul that will never heal completely, and the scab gets knocked off, very easily.

then, you had me again, when you said that god did save my son. i know that. his life was full of pain, and misery, and one of the prayers i prayed at the bittersweet end, was that god would take him. so, ironically, god did answer that prayer, i guess, right? what am i bitching about???? lol

thank you for reminding me that christians sometimes say the wrong things, too. i know it's easy for me to hold them to a higher standard, when i shouldn't.

Tessa said...

this comment is not related to the post but I wanted to let you know that I passed on my "sunshine award" to you as one of my fav. 12 blogs. If you want to play, head over to my blog, grab the sunflower pic and then list your 12 (no expectation for you to list me:).

Nikki B. said...

i'm a happy person...not a happer person!! see how happy i am:

:-D

Anonymous said...

I am glad that Satan did not steal your joy. Also, I am sorry that I did not answer your question. “If God is capable of answering all the prayers...but, doesn't. Then, why does he answer any of the prayers?”

He does, He just answers them His way. Think about it???? Even Jesus asked God to “LET THIS CUP PASS FROM ME.” MATTHEW 26 God’s will was that Christ Die for our sins. Just like you said God spared your son of pain, and misery. He may have saved that child’s finger so one day they could become an awesome heart surgeon that will save my life, or yours, or maybe even someone you love. We will just have to wait and see.

I know God can heal that wound you have and I hope that you will allow Him to. Isaiah 53:5 BUT HE WAS PIERCED FOR OUR TRANSGRESSIONS, HE WAS CRUSHED FOR OUR INIQUITIES; PUNISHMENT THAT BROUGHT US PEACE WAS UPON HIM, AND BY HIS WOUNDS WE ARE HEALED.

I hope I was an encouragement and I have been praying for you.

Sincerely,
An Ambassador for Christ
2 Corinthians 5:20

Rassles said...

"I am sorry that Satan has deceived you and stolen your joy."

I'm sorry, I was going to be all caring and considerate regarding this post and then I read that Anonymous statement and thought, "What a condescending fucking asshole."

Passive aggressive statements like that make me want to stand apart from Christianity.

And: you are brave for not fighting with her. I probably would have said something like, "That's a bitchy thing to say. I guess that means your daughter's finger was worth more than my son's life. Congrats on birthing the second coming."

Rassles said...

Which is only passive aggressive if I say it quietly, but if I YELL it at her, then my aggression will not be taken for passive. So there.

Anonymous said...

"I am sorry that Satan has deceived you and stolen your joy."
This is a reality, whether people want to acknowledge it or not evil exist. Satan does his very best to destroy our lives. 1 PETER 5:8 BE SOBER, BE VIGILANT; BECAUSE YOUR ADVERSARY THE DEVIL WALKS ABOUT LIKE A ROARING LION, SEEKING WHOM HE MAY DEVOUR.

Satan looks to destroy lives, families, relationship, and reputations. The more that we ignore that this happens the more Satan’s plan works.

No passive aggression only compassion. I just hope that I was able to shed some light on Nikki’s question.

Obviously others are not concerned with trying to find an answer just name calling.

Sincerely,
An Ambassador for Christ
2 Corinthians 5:20

Lolidots said...

Anon- I must respectfully disagree with your "This is a reality" comment. It's not a "reality". It's a belief. And, it's not something that everyone believes in. Nothing wrong with someone believing in it but, you cannot project your beliefs onto those who do not share them.

Your reasoning for why God saved the child's finger seems even more hurtful than the original comment that Nikki got from the parent. So, God saved the girl's finger because she might be a surgeon someday but, the kids he doesn't save aren't going to amount to anything so, eff them. And, how about those child molesters and murderers? Good thing God saved them!

I don't mean to be condescending or offensive. Just saying, Christianity and the poor reasoning can be mighty confusing.

Courtney said...

great blog post and i totally understand it.

as someone who has lost a child and not in the same way you did, i went through the feelings you had from our blog frog discussion and my response to he answers his prayers how he wants to, than what is the point in praying. no matter how we pray he is going to do what is best, so sorry flawed argument.

my MIL is a pastors wife and missionary, months after our daughter die she told me how someone almost got in a car wreak and they didnt and it brought her to God cause he saved her life by prayer and how blessed she was to have that experience. I wanted to at that moment slap her, and i love her but did she just realize she was saying that my prayers were not like an "unsaved" person and that I wasn't blessed?

i agree totally with the person who said the bible is full as parables, that is how I feel and I think its very much interpreted how our culture wants to interpret it. i love to look to it for guidance and reference but I dont go along with standard "christian" culture.

Anonymous said...

Hi Nikki, Just wanted to give you my opinion on what you wrote. Not to bash anyone believer or non believer. I am so sorry for your loss. I have been through a lot in my life, childhood abuse by my father, divorced parents, loosing someone by disease and accidental, and now I have lost my job, my husband has cancer, and still I have peace because of my Savior! I am not going to throw any scriptures as you. I do not want to sound like I am preaching to you. I just want to share a little of what I believe based on my own reading in the bible. I can tell you also, the best place to find the answers to your questions, is in the bible. All of our lives and situations are different and he reveals different things to us either through his message in the bible or even sitting at church on Sunday listening to the preacher. I sincerely hope this helps you. I understand your pain, and even anger at the lady who said those things. All I can say on that is that she is human. All of us, believer and non-beliver, have and will stick our foots in our mouths at one time or another. I really do not think she thought about what she was saying. And God does not love her child anymore than he did your son. Your son is with Him now. I promise you that. He does not have to suffer like you said. He is not in any pain, and He will live eternally now with His maker. But it does leave a whole or void in our lives when we loose someone we love so much. But that is the time we need Jesus more than ever. Now...on to what I was going to say..In my opinion this s goes back to free will, and God wanting us to choose to love him, and not force our hand in it. Even on earth no one wants to have to force someone to love them. And really it can't be done. That is not what love is or how it works. God did not have to create us. He created man, His children, to love us and be loved by us. But he did not create us to be puppets for Him to controll. Even Adam and Eve had free will. It was that free will, and the choice they made that lead to their own sins. There are both natural tragedies in this world, and man created tragedies or evil acts. Those that are of man are created out of our own sin. Disease can be argued as both. I mean even though cancer has not been completely understood, we can also say that because of the things man has created (toxins, chemicals,etc.) that we have seen this disease grow, and grow. I believe God allows all of these acts because He does not control us. Through all of these things people do seem to seek Him, and to seek comfort. When there is a huge earthquake or some sort of natural disaster, the first thing we do is pray, and look for peace. God is all knowing. He knew what would happen even before we were born. He knew who would accept Him and who wouldn't. But WE do not know that. So we have to spread the word to all, and let people make their choice. I do not believe God causes these things to happen to us...We know that at any second He could come in and wipe it all away, and completely heal everyone.

continued in next post :)

Anonymous said...

However, if He does that, then doesn't that go back to Him controlling our lives and our choices? If He corrects everything we do wrong then there is no consequence for our sins. If there is no consequence then we would not understand, pain and suffering. If you have never understood, or been through some sort of pain, then you would not truly understand love and all of it's greatness. Without Christ's suffering on the cross would we even understand His Love for us. Didn't He have to sacrifice His own child in order to show us how much He loved us? Could we even imagine letting one of our children go through what Jesus did? Could we sit by and watch it? By His own sacrifice we understand His almighty power, and mercy. His Love in it's proper Magnitude. He says I love you so much I literally gave my own son to be born.... just to die..for you! There was no other way to show you how much I love you. Then with all of that He still gave us the free will to choose to love Him, or not. He could have created us to just worship Him and love Him and there be no sadness or suffering. But again that would have been a selfish God to create us for His control. Instead He gave us choice, and by our choice here on earth, if we choose to love Him back and accept Him, then we will live forever in Heaven with Him. With all the rewards the bible tells us!

This is very long I know. It really is a hard thing to understand. I know it is. But we do not have all the answers, and we won't until one day when we are in Heaven. But this is where your Faith comes in. The other thing that I think about is that even tribes in third world countries who have never heard the gospel, seek a higher power, and they even pray. So that tells me that even though they do not know of Him, there is something naturally within us that seeks our maker.

I really hope that you know He loves you. He does not want for you to suffer in anyway.

Have a great rest of the week Nikki!

Praying for many blessings for you!!

Anonymous said...

Lolidots - Sorry never meant to be hurtful. I believe that God has reasons for everything. That was just a thought. We will probably never know.

Is it possible that God saved that girls finger for a purpose? Yes

Is it possible that God saved Nikki’s son from anymore pain or suffering? Absolutely

Does Evil exist you tell me. You are the one that brought up molesters and murderers. So is that evil or not?


Very interested in your answer.

Kaolinmommy said...

Wow. Do you know how awesome you are? I'm glad you decided to "go ahead and go." As a Christian (and someone who is at the church literally almost every day) I struggle constantly with these same kinds of interactions and, in turn, the same questions.

I do believe God answers prayer. But it sure does suck when mine aren't answered. And it sucks even more when insensitive, ignorant people imply that they have some direct line and the whole prayer-thing figured out while the rest of us might as well be dialing a 900 number. Not only does it make me feel like I didn't pray hard enough, or measure up in some other way, but it makes me feel like God is some distant being to be bartered with. Like, toss a virgin in the volcano kind of bartering.

The funny thing is, that's the kind of crap that Jesus came to do away with. He wanted us to know there was nothing we could do to earn more favor with God. It's hard for me to remember that when people around me are getting their little "miracles" (I've heard ladies at my church talk about God providing them a good parking space!)and my heart's cries are seeming to fall on deaf ears. But I try.

One of the hardest things I had to learn was what Anon. said. To the God of eternity, there is no greater healing than being with Him forever. When I lost someone very close to me after praying SO hard for healing, it took me YEARS to begin to understand that- and I'm only still beginning.

I've rambled a lot. I love your heart and your honesty and I'm so sorry that people wearing the name of Christ have hurt you. I think you know my heart enough to know how much that kind of stuff hurts me.

One more random thought: The Shack is a great book about tragedy and how & when God intercedes in our lives. Fiction, but insightful. You know, if you're up for some non-nursing textbook reading.

MX3 said...

Here's something I can actually say "Amen!" to and mean it.

From one non believer to another, you're awesome.

Anonymous said...

Hey everyone this is Dee.I do not normally do the Blog thing but a friend emailed me this and wanted my opinion.
But I have one question. Who is going to answer this ladies question? I only saw one attempt. The rest mostly non-since and disagreement. I would really like an answer too?

Nikki B. said...

anon 1 - thanks for the prayers. although, i thought we were just talking about how god does things his own way anyway...so, there's just another thing that confuses me!! since we're on the topic and all!

rassles - that might or might not be, exactly what i was thinking!

robin - good point..."So, God saved the girl's finger because she might be a surgeon someday but, the kids he doesn't save aren't going to amount to anything so, eff them." warm fuzzies, man...warm fuzzies!! ;)

courtney - thanks for your comment, and your perspective. it really is hard (read: impossible) to just say, "oh well, god knows best...moving on," after the death of your kid. it's impossible to not wonder the why's of it all!

anon 2 - thanks for taking the time to type that all out for me. i appreciate it. and for sharing your thoughts. you said, "Without Christ's suffering on the cross would we even understand His Love for us." that makes sense. i get that. it's just so circular which adds to my confusion. which is where faith comes in...and that is what i'm lacking! i think it's admirable, that in the face of adversity, you still have yours! it sounds like you've seen some suffering...i'm sorry. thanks again for weighing in here!

emily - you know i always appreciate and enjoy your thoughts on the subject! you are rare breed, and i love your passion and understanding! i will def check out that book. i've heard talk of it before. thanks, emily!!

MX3 - and HALLELUJAH! and all that good stuff!!

dee - i don't really think this was all nonsense, and disagreement is what happens on the subject of religion, so that's to be expected. as far as an answer...is there one? do you have one? i'd love to hear your thoughts. thanks for stopping by!!

Anonymous said...

Dee again
okay, I will give this a shot since you asked.

There is a scripture in Romans that talks about “how all thing work out good for those who love God”.When I first heard someone reference this I thought that they were crazy. How can you tell a woman that has been raped, a child that has been abused, or someone that has experienced a great tragedy that is going to work out if you love God. CRAZY & INCONSIDERATE!

But then I approach a friend that had used this but also experienced great tragedy. To spear you the details: my friend went through a time line after the tragedy took place. It was amazing how things change and the good that happened. It would not have happened without that tragedy or without God. Now this does not happen with everyone but it was very neat the way it worked out. I think the biggest thing that experience showed me was that God does do what he wants. But he always knows best.

I see how it works as a parent. We do our best to make the best decisions for our kids. Sometimes they do not like it. Most of the time they do not understand our logic. Why? We have been there - done that – know what is going to happen. I think it is the same way with God we just don’t understand his logic.

So, Nikki is right it all comes down to faith. Just like a child puts their faith in their Mother. I put my faith in God.
Some people put their faith in themselves, or in different religions. That is fine. I can see how you would do that. But the question is – What if you are wrong? I hate to think of that.

If I am wrong I guess I will just end up a pile of dust. But if I am right by placing my Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ – WOW!

Shelly said...

Nikki,

sounds like you DO believe there is a GOD...but your just mad at Him!! And I could not say that I would not be in the exact same place you are if one of my children were ever taken from me. there is a difference in believing there is a God and just being mad at him to believing there is NO God. you said you were a christian before your son died and now your not because he died?? because God didnt save him and heal him?? how can you go from believing there is a God to NOT just because something didnt go your way? i totally would understand your anger at him but you say your not angry...i dont understand how you went from believing there was a God to NOT. and everyone always says people that go from this earth to heaven are in a much better place, way better place than we and that we should be happy for them...I GET THIS, I BELIEVE THIS!! But its hard to be happy and not sad when you miss someone like crazy, when you dont see them, hear them, feel them...
Nikki, i will never understand God's ways, NO ONE EVER WILL. I dont know what kind of person I would be after losing a child but hope and pray I never find out. My heart hurts for you when the subject of joey comes up because i would be so unbelievably sad myself. i wish this world wasnt so cruel, i wish joey would have been healed and still with you today!! I know you dont believe this, but ONE DAY YOU COULD SEE HIM AGAIN!! I hope and yes PRAY, that you are truly a happy person today but if your not thats ok too. Just want you to know that although we may disagree, i wish nothing but the best for you!!

Nikki B. said...

dee - i totally agree. i know that because my son died, i am where i am today. and i love love love where i am today. i know for a fact, that if my son had lived, i wouldn't have the three amazing kids that i have now. there wouldn't have been time, or money for them. so, i know that as cliche as it is...thing kinda do happen for a reason...my issue with the particular incident, was the woman's insinuation that christians can get anything they want with prayer. i don't understand that rationale...and she's not the only christian who feels that way. i see prayer requests all the time in blogland asking for healing and prayer for some sick kid, or dying baby. thanks for sharing your thoughts!

shelly - i'm not mad at god, because i don't believe he caused my son's death. i do believe in a creator...but, not the god of the bible. i didn't quit believing because things didn't go my way. actually...things did go my way...i prayed that joey would die, so that he wouldn't have to suffer, when he was so sick at the very end. i quit believing in the god of christianity, because my life experiences were telling me that the christianity that i was raised to know...wasn't right, or real, for me. it was all contradicting itself, and confusing me...and it made me miserable. since i have freed myself of that label, and the guilt and the fear that it brought me...yes...i have been a truly happy person!

i was upset at this woman's idea of chrisitainity. of a god that was at her service...at her beck and call, to save fingertips whenever she needed him to. that is what angered me...not that my kid is dead. yes, having a dead kid sucks...but, i have three amazing live kids, who wouldn't be here, if joey hadn't died. so...how can i wish anything to change?? i can't.

Katrina said...

In this woman's tiny mind, I am sure she meant no offense. But I would have reacted the same way!

Perhaps you can help me with an awkward situation I had the other day. There was a new woman at my son's daycare working the afternoon shift. I had never seen her before so went over and introduced myself and asked if she was new. She said no, that she had been on maternity leave. I asked if she had a boy or a girl, she said boy. But he had died on New Year's day. Then added that this was her fourth child. Releived at having a way out of awkwardness, I wanted to turn the conversation to the old kids. Then she corrected me..."No, this is the fourth baby I have had die. I have no living children."

At this point I wanted to run screaming down the hall and shoot myself for trying to be friendly!

What should I have done???

Some broad said...

Amen sister!! I work in a funeral home and see people whose bodies have been ravaged by illness and loved ones who are left behind who are in terrible grief.

Would a God with never ending power and love "allow" so much suffering?

I'm new to your blog and don't know your story but will comment as I read more. I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your son.

angela

Nikki B. said...

katrina - wow! that is awkward. here is my opinion on that situation...

i would've asked her if she minded if i asked a couple more questions. 1) if she is uncomfortable talking, then, she can tell you. 2) this is her reality. no matter how painful these losses were/are, they are her reality, and a part of her life. i like to talk about my son, because he is a part of me, of who i am. sometimes it hurts, but, that's part of having a dead kid.

sometimes we just want to talk about our kids, and we dont' get the chance, because most often other people are so uncomfortable, that the subject is avoided at all costs.

i would've just said, "can i ask what happened?" and then, a simple, "i'm so sorry," is all that is needed.

some broad - thanks for stopping by!!

theagnosticswife said...

Amen!!!

Don't you know you can't write a post like this and not have the Christians say they are going to pray for you.

I however will not because I know that it does not work. At all

But I'm so incredibly sorry for your loss.

Candi said...

Hm, I usually don't post on your blogs about Christianity b/c I'm not super Christian woman. I believe in Jesus and God. I believe 100% in the Bible and I believe that these are actual truths not "made up stories". But in regards to prayer, I totally understand why you think the way you do. I guess I just accept that sometimes God answers prayers the way we want and sometimes He doesn't. Just like when my children ask me for things, sometimes I answer the way they want me to and sometimes I don't. :)

KS said...

I don't know what I believe anymore. I grew up a good Mormon girl. I left Mormonism 6 years ago, Happy to be OUT. Since I don't know what to believe. I am sorry you had to deal with that. I feel the same about prayers. I think at one time I was that lady. I am happy to say I am not anymore.